Posts by not a captive

159

Getting into Arguments with JW's...

by ForbiddenFruit in

i'm trying to fade away, but i sometimes find myself in discussions or arguments with jw family/friends/white haired virgin elders.

now, i usually have them beat on things but i'm not very experienced, so i was thinking if you guys could help me put together a list of completely unanswerable questions to pose to my jw friends/family/elders so they can stop bugging me.

if i keep asking them questions they simply cannot answer, then they might leave them alone.

not a captive

Sorry MadJ---- I only read what the Bible says. The Society puts a different word in there.The Society cannot have it both ways on their research. If the Bible text did NOT say zebach--sacrifice--and Abraham took care to express it with the word Olah AND the Society maintains that Jephthah knew that there was no way he would "sacrifice" his daughter---- then how did Jephthah learn what making a burnt offering of his daughter would entail? Because He knew the Abraham story. Check out the Bible story book. When the account is about Judges 11 it uses the right words "burnt offering" not the word "sacrifice" but it doesn't do the same for Abraham.

There is no good reason for the WTS to make a big deal out of understanding the test as being consonant with Jehovah's attitude toward child sacrifice when the actual words do not demand we see him as a sadistic trickster.

No good reason! If you know of a good reason, a scriptural one, tell me. Don't tell me that Abraham as God's friend knew he should kill his son. Why can't I say that I am God's friend ,too,and I know that this is a slander?

42

Do you still pray? Why?

by gubberningbody in

jw
friends

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk6ilzaaami.

.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uazdcs-rmf4.

not a captive

I prayed for a kitten when I was ten. I told God I would be a really good girl if He would get me one and my dad would let me keep it. I asked for a black one. My sister's friend gave me a coal black kitten.

I prayed intermitently as it grew into a wild tom who crapped in my shoe and bit me after he started prowling.

Later I didn't talk to God about anything. I didn't want his opinion on my doings. I thanked him for nothing. I asked him for nothing. .

I made trouble for myself and for those around me. Any integrity I had left was of the weakest sort: it was only that I would not expect God to clean up after me.

Eventually I was miserable. Not only that but the little family I had started was being dragged down with the trouble I had stirred up in reaching for things that were just different shades of selfishness.

Finally I broke down. I had to pray because I could not think of a way to erase my own life that could erase the mess I would leave for my family.

But I didn't pray like I did when I was ten years old. I wouldn't pray to God like a kid who wanted a black kitten.

But God didn't answer my prayers.

I did some really deep thinking. And God didn't answer my prayers.

I bargained, I justified. He still didn't say anything to me.

I tried fasting. And nothing happened.

Finally I was as lost as a child. There was nothing left. I had no understanding but only one desire: I just wanted his "ear". I didn't even care if he solved my problems.

After months of silence, God let me know He had been there all the time: there was a miracle. It so really, truly happened that my husband, who doesn't give a flying fig for God, marked it. He didn't change , but I did.

For those who don't believe in prayer, any further details would only supply something more to laugh at. I understand why Jesus so often told folks he healed "Tell no one". Healing is for healing, not for display. It rarely moves others.

I still pray because, even without daily or even annual miracles I know He is there. My old baggage remains, but I can carry it now--with God's help.

``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````

The Witnesses with all the pre-fabbed "knowledge of God" devastated me and mine for a time, but remembering God's kindness before I even knew the name of Him, I left them and got reacquainted with Him .

10

INTELLECTUALS ONLY: Interview with HAROLD BLOOM about Jesus and Jehovah

by Terry in

] a whisky cake is being consumed.. jb: [laughs.].

[pause.

not a captive

And fascinatingly enough there are two things that I've said throughout my life when I've addressed Jewish audiences....... One is that nowhere in the whole of the Tanakh does it say that a whole people can make themselves holy through study of texts. That's a purely Platonic idea, and comes out of Plato's Laws.

It is always instructive to overhear a well-read person's thoughts on religion, and Harold Bloom certainly has the credentials. In the rarified environment of one of the most elite colleges of the Ivey Leagues, prestigious Yale, Bloom sits like God among the gods. Bloom's interviewer and He Himself seem delighted to dismiss with so much wit and whiskey cake Yahweh and any spin-offs that may have occured since the Zimzum zammed. He is a voracious reader and writer and he may get the last word--if not the last book--in collating data on the subject of Dieties of the Western world. But his comment from paragraph 53 that so infuriates his Jewish audiences denies that a whole people can make themselves holy through study of texts likewise dismisses the value of his own vast study in constructing a holy relationship with Yahweh/ Jehovah and Jeshua/Jesus.

The tempation to try to engage Bloom on his own terms is far from me-- I am not a college graduate, I have seven children and have lived most of my adult years in rustic living situations and little money. But I believe I would ask him to engage on on my ground instead of his--for the very reasons that he named above: books alone just can't do it. Instead I would advance the idea that the likes of Mary of Bethany, unlettered and derided for her gender and moral inferiority might find that holiness ahead of Bible scholars --and the likes of Bloom.

HWe could meet on some common ground however. Bloom, and others familiar with the Hebrew scriptures believe there have been writers who have worked a smoothly edited narrative of Bible history--A horror story to some Christians. But even accepting this possibility, I am intrigued that the seminal story of the Hebrew people, the story of Abraham and his test at Genesis 22 is the solitary portion exempt from the editorial work suspected by scholars. And it is the story of Abraham that offers for such as myself and others who do not have a chance to know God through extensive study. Abraham offers the compelling model that holiness is available not through a committee, a college, an organization. Holiness is available to the unwashed masses. Truly.

I would put before Bloom that the primitive expressions of ancient Hebrew in the area of verses dealing with "Abraham's listening to God" was holy enough in tradition that it was never altered to achieve a smoother style. What it had to say was was too holy for smoother words. It is ifunny to think that the study of this text does show why Bloom is right. Whole peoples cannot make themselves holy through the study of texts: God is only known in the act of worship itself, in the sudden provision of insight you never expected to find.

39

I would like to thank my children......

by awildflower in

......for being so obedient and cooperative during our lives as jw's.

for getting ready for all of those meetings and doing their best to study before hand and comment.

for volunteering to help the elderly and others with yard work and cooking and babysitting.

not a captive

John Doe,

I read your comment this morning when I woke up to read more happy responses to wildflower's letter. My children and I did not have the same story. There has been some painful after effects and resentment.

It is hard to express to wildflower how happy her story made me feel. Even a few short words.

I have read and reread your comment and realized that you too are sharing something on this post. I am not sure what it is. If my expression "heart warming" has put you and others off your feed I am sorry. I was only so very happy that someone shared with friends and strangers (myself) a happy (heart warming?) letter of the afterward of leaving. For so many of us there has been such a long and bitter after taste that it leave a little acid on their tongue. I think some dripped on me this morning.

Maeve

9

MADJW is burning his candle at both ends

by BackRoomBilly in

jw
friends

sorry i don't know how to paste the actual thing but here are a few excerpts from the jw facebook.. antonio santana .

all, my apology for my public with "banta" also known as madjw.

since he didn't want to deal with me privately, i imagine he is very well exposed for what he is.

not a captive

The MadJW really undermines the Organization and yet pretends to fiercely support it?

Some of us have been disfellowshipped, some are disassociated, some fade. But what is this?

19

Sinead O'Connor on Catholic Church Abuse Scandal

by whereami in

jw
friends

very good job on here part.

is it me or are there many similarities in the way things were handled in the catholic church & the wts?.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0uboj5heha&playnext_from=tl&videos=9u3ttaqxvym.

not a captive

Organized Religion is a disease to mankind!!!!!

Just wanted to repeat it for emphasis, whereami.

The only time the WTS got anything right-on was when for a while in the 1920s they said: Religion is a snare and a racket.

39

I would like to thank my children......

by awildflower in

......for being so obedient and cooperative during our lives as jw's.

for getting ready for all of those meetings and doing their best to study before hand and comment.

for volunteering to help the elderly and others with yard work and cooking and babysitting.

not a captive

Wonderful to read this. It is tremendously good that the real strength that Jesus taught --love-- awas the quality that kept you all strong individually and as a family. It is so heart warming to think about this. Thanks again for sharing it with us.

Maeve

14

Have you "Made the Truth Your Own"

by gubberningbody in

jw
friends

not a captive

I am still de-constructing the add-ons to see what it is. There is a lot of debris.

Every comment expresses what I experienced: If you make it your own you have made your way out. O sweet freedom! Now where is that wrecking bar?

6

Where can I get this book?

by goddidit in

"my book of bible stories".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/file:my_book_of_bible_stories.jpg.

preferably electronic and free.

not a captive

Ebay has them fairly often.

159

Getting into Arguments with JW's...

by ForbiddenFruit in

i'm trying to fade away, but i sometimes find myself in discussions or arguments with jw family/friends/white haired virgin elders.

now, i usually have them beat on things but i'm not very experienced, so i was thinking if you guys could help me put together a list of completely unanswerable questions to pose to my jw friends/family/elders so they can stop bugging me.

if i keep asking them questions they simply cannot answer, then they might leave them alone.

not a captive

Mindmelda--You had a blazing bad bunch for a congregation didn't you? You know, I had some of my best days as a witness in a little rural congregation that had an outhouse when I first met with them. But I have had fellowship to match it at a little unaffiliated Chinese Christian Church around the corner from where I live now. It think when folks --trying to be like Christ--are "getting it" the brotherhood is great. But corporate Christianity is a dead body that can poison even the brothers and sisters who do seem to "get it".
Maeve